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shouldn't have said that。 But you do fight all the time； even when there's no need to。〃
〃That's all right；〃 Rand said。 He was still trying to take in Loial's age。 Older than old Cenn Buie； and still not old enough to 。。。 He sat down in one of the high…backed chairs。 Loial took another； made to hold two； he filled it。 Sitting； he was as tall as most men standing。 〃At least they did let you go。〃
Loial looked at the floor； wrinkling his nose and rubbing at it with one thick finger。 〃Well； as to that； now。 You see； the Stump had not been meeting very long； not even a year； but I could tell from what I heard that by the time they reached a decision I would be old enough to go without their permission。 I am afraid they'll say I put a long handle on my axe； but I just 。。。 left。 The Elders always said I was too hot…headed； and I fear I've proven them right。 I wonder if they have realized I'm gone； yet？ But I had to go。 〃
Rand bit his lip to keep from laughing。 If Loial was a hot…headed Ogier； he could imagine what most Ogier were like。 Had not been meeting very long； not even a year？ Master al'Vere would just shake his head in wonder； a Village Council meeting that lasted half a day would have everybody jumping up and down； even Haral Luhhan。 A wave of homesickness swept over him； making it hard to breathe for memories of Tam； and Egwene； and the Winespring Inn； and Bel Tine on the Green in happier days。 He forced them away。
〃If you don't mind my asking；〃 he said； clearing his throat； 〃why did you want to go 。。。 ah； Outside； so much？ I wish I'd never left my home； myself。 〃
〃Why； to see；〃 Loial said as if it were the most obvious thing in the world。 〃I read the books； all the travelers' accounts； and it began to burn in me that I had to see； not just read。〃 His pale eyes brightened； and his ears stiffened。 〃I studied every scrap I could find about traveling； about the Ways； and customs in human lands； and the cities we built for you humans after the Breaking of the World。 And the more I read； the more I knew that I had to go Outside； go to those places we had been； and see the groves for myself。〃
Rand blinked。 〃Groves？〃
〃Yes； the groves。 The trees。 Only a few of the Great Trees； of course； towering to the sky to keep memories of the stedding fresh。〃 His chair groaned as he shifted forward； gesturing with his hands； one of which still held the book。 His eyes were brighter than ever； and his ears almost quivered。 〃Mostly they used the trees of the land and the place。 You cannot make the land go against itself。 Not for long； the land will rebel。 You must shape the vision to the land； not the land to the vision。 In every grove was planted every tree that would grow and thrive in that place； each balanced against the next； each placed to plement the others； for the best growing； of course； but also so that the balance would sing in the eye and the heart。 Ah； the books spoke of groves to make Elders weep and laugh at the same time； groves to remain green in memory forever。〃
〃What about the cities？〃 Rand asked。 Loial gave him a puzzled look。 〃The cities。 The cities the Ogier built。 Here； for instance。 Caemlyn。 Ogier built Caemlyn； didn't you？ The stories say so。〃
〃Working with stone。。。〃 His shoulders gave a massive shrug。 〃That was just something learned in the years after the Breaking； during the Exile； when we were still trying to find the stedding again。 It is a fine thing； I suppose； but not the true thing。 Try as you will … and I have read that the Ogier who built those cities truly did try … you cannot make stone live。 A few still do work with stone； but only because you humans damage the buildings so often with your wars。 There were a handful of Ogier in 。。。 ah 。。。 Cairhien； it's called now 。。。 when I passed through。 They were from another stedding； luckily； so they didn't know about me； but they were still suspicious that I was Outside alone so young。 I suppose it's just as well there was no reason for me to linger there。 In any case； you see； working with stone is just something that was thrust on us by the weaving of the Pattern； the groves came from the heart。〃
Rand shook his head。 Half the stories he had grown up with had just been stood on their heads。 〃I didn't know Ogier believed in the Pattern； Loial。〃
〃Of course； we believe。 The Wheel of Time weaves the Pattern of the Ages； and lives are the threads it weaves。 No one can tell how the thread of his own life will be woven into the Pattern； or how the thread of a people will be woven。 It gave us the Breaking of the World； and the Exile； and Stone； and the Longing； and eventually it gave us back the stedding before we all died。 Sometimes I think the reason you humans are the way you are is because your threads are so short。 They must jump around in the weaving。 Oh； there； I've done it again。 The Elders say you humans don't like to be reminded of how short a time you live。 I hope I didn't hurt your feelings。〃
Rand laughed and shook his head。 〃Not at all。 I suppose it'd be fun to live as long as you do； but I never really thought about it。 I guess if I live as long as old Cenn Buie； that'll be long enough for anybody。〃
〃He is a very old man？〃
Rand just nodded。 He was not about to explain that old Cenn Buie was not quite as old as Loial。
〃Well；〃 Loial said； 〃perhaps you humans do have short lives； but you do so much with them； always jumping around； always so hasty。 And you have the whole world to do it in。 We Ogier are bound to our stedding。〃
〃You're Outside。〃
〃For a time； Rand。 But I must go back； eventually。 This world is yours； yours and your kind's。 The stedding are mine。 There's too much hurly…burly Outside。 And so much is changed from what I read about。〃
〃Well； things do change over the years。 Some； anyway。〃
〃Some？ Half the cities I read about aren't even there any longer； and most of the rest are known by different names。 You take Cairhien。 The city's proper name is Al'cair'rahienallen； Hill of the Golden Dawn。 They don't even remember； for all of the sunrise on their banners。 And the grove there。 I doubt if it has been tended since the Trolloc Wars。 It's just another forest； now； where they cut firewood。 The Great Trees are all gone； and no one remembers them。 And here？ Caemlyn is still Caemlyn； but they let the city grow right over the grove。 We're not a quarter of a mile from the center of it right where we sit … from where the center of it should be。 Not a tree of it left。 I've been to Tear and Illian； too。 Different names； and no memories。 There's only pasture for their horses where the grove was at Tear； and at Illian the grove is the King's park； where he hunts his deer； and none allowed inside without his permission。 It has all changed； Rand。 I fear very much that I will find the same everywhere I go。 All the groves gone； all the memories gone； all the dreams dead。〃
〃You can't give up； Loial。 You can't ever give up。 If you give up； you might as well be dead。〃 Rand sank back in his chair as far as he could go； his face turning red。 He expected the Ogier to laugh at him； but Loial nodded gravely instead。
〃